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Bumppo
Join Date: 3/14/2008
3/25/2008 6:30:18 PM handcuffs and flex cuffs
I took the E&E class recently and learned how to break and burn flex cuffs and pick handcuffs. I am currently visiting my brother who is a police officer. He put his flex cuffs on me and they are definitley made of a much stronger polymer and sturdier lock than those used in class. I am 230 pounds and in shape. I had NO problem breaking these in class but nearly knocked myself senseless trying to get out of them with no luck. I then used military issue paracord to burn through. I will tell you that when these cuffs are applied properly you WILL burn your hands cutting through these. After enough effort to put big blisters on my wrists with the paracord I had my brother cut me out. I did burn through the cuffs but these were so tough that the cord broke prior to cutting all of the way through the cuff. I was able to twist the cuff and break it at that point. Has anybody tried this with the stuff the police use? I need some feedback.
Next..he cuffed me with the smith and wesson cuffs. I did have him cuff me in the front as I am not able to get my hands from back to front. When he cuffed me he did it so that the top of my writs were together rather than the bottom of my wrists. The fingers are facing the wrong way then and he cuffed me nice and snug so there was no spinning wrists...so no lock picking from that position.

Does anybody have any suggestions (other than not getting cuffed)?



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kevinreeve
Join Date: 1/2/2008
3/26/2008 2:46:49 AM 
LOL. You have encountered the latest generation of flexicuffs. The technology has caught up to our technique. The burn technique is so far the only way out. Attempting to break them hurts hurts like hell and only tightens the metal hook into the plastic. I watched a SEAL break one once, but this knuckledragger does not feel pain like most people. And his wrists were torn up.

The Paracord method works. You have two boots, thus two shoelaces. If your brother put them on so tight that you burned your wrist, he is a cruel bastard. If you break one bootlace, use the second. I have found that I can cut them with one, however, it takes really long strokes to disperse the heat along the length of the cord. Was it two singles joined or one of the single piece units? The single piece units are very tough to get out of. They have a metal reinforcing strip running the length. The cord will cut them, but it takes both laces.

As for the cuff technique your brother used, there are some things you can do to avoid getting cuffed that way. Part of the psychology involved is if you know you are getting cuffed, to manipulate the person cuffing you. For example, when you are approached, stick your hands out in front of you to be cuffed. Who knows, he may take the bait. You can also feign an injury to your shoulder that makes rotation of your wrists behind you impossible. I request a double cuff arrangement because of my size. I shouldn't say request. It is just not possible to to get my arms together with one pair. The key is not to allow the person cuffing you to get the back of your wrists together. Otherwise you are going to have to rotate them in the cuff, and that is going to hurt like hell. It can be done, but with great pain. So resist

Their is always an interplay between measure and counter-measure in any conflict situation. You have to know what the enemy is going to do, and develop a new strategy to defeat it. Sometimes it takes some painful experimentation.




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The Green Arrow
Join Date: 3/15/2008
3/28/2008 11:15:07 AM 
Question on the burn method: is paracord the ideal material to use? We used paracord in class, and you taught us to swap out our boot strings for paracord. But I also have a good pair of technical hiking/climbing boots that came with strings that "appear" to be paracord-ish. Is military paracord the only material that will hold up under an extended burn scenario?




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kevinreeve
Join Date: 1/2/2008
3/29/2008 5:38:17 AM 
I am going to purchase some different accessory cord for testing. I suspect Maxim Technical Cord will work best as it is more flexible than kevlar, but I bet one of them will cut better than paracord. I recommend Paracord because it is available to military guys.

Here is the link for Maxim. http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/climbdetail.cfm/MAX105

Paracord works way better that bootlaces. Somebody come up with something you could put into some stripped out paracord to make it bullet proof.



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T.A.L. "Dozer"
Join Date: 3/14/2008
3/29/2008 9:19:51 AM Spectra
I find that spectra cord works the best and comes in various colors to blend in with clothing and footwear. The para cord (550 cord) blows. It may be good for training or a pinch, but not your life.

Cheers,
Troy



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T.A.L. "Dozer"
Join Date: 3/14/2008
3/29/2008 9:33:09 AM Spectra VS Tech
I guess I should have addressed this in the last post. There is varies companies that make cord stronger then Spectra but they are either to stiff or to supple. With Tech Cord it is just to “loose”. You need to have enough stiffness to “lace” the cord into or through various places while blind folded or hooded and restrained with limited dexterity. So stiffness is a major factor. You have to balance the strength or cutting ability with stiffness. Hope this clarifies my recommendation.

Cheers,
Troy



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kevinreeve
Join Date: 1/2/2008
4/1/2008 8:43:00 PM 
Should have known. Troy has forgotten more than I will ever know. Saves me the research. Now if I can find it in the right color to match my desert boots and my belt. Must have the right look you know... LOL. Actually what I read said that spectra was less heat resistant than the Maxim, but that the Maxim was pretty stiff and did not take knots well. So I will buy some Spectra and let you know.



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The Green Arrow
Join Date: 3/15/2008
6/5/2008 7:27:23 AM 
At what point do the flexicuffs become too thick to break? We found a REALLY thick pair and my buddy tried to snap out of them like on the video on your site, but he failed (painfully). Once folks (anyone wanting to handcuff you quickly) realize the thinner flexicuffs are easy to break, do they switch up to thicker ones? How many folks know about the "latest generation technology" in flexicuffs? Are these now readily available and have they replaced the easier/thinner units?




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Bumppo
Join Date: 3/14/2008
6/5/2008 12:47:11 PM 
According to my brother who is a state police officer, the new thick ones with the metal core are all they use in his organization...


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The Green Arrow
Join Date: 3/15/2008
6/5/2008 3:01:36 PM 
Assuming you can't break these, can they be burned through with parachord? Or does that metal strip center make this impossible?


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Bumppo
Join Date: 3/14/2008
6/5/2008 3:27:14 PM 
It took 2 pieces of paracord. I did this twice and got the same result.


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radishfarmer
Join Date: 3/1/2008
12/16/2008 2:57:04 PM Peerless handcuffs
Following my Urban Escape & Evasion course with onPoint Tactical, I purchased a series of locks and two sets of handcuffs in order to maintain critical skills taught during the course. I can pick most of the locks now, and I can easily pick the Smith and Wesson handcuffs. However, the Peerless handcuffs seem MUCH more difficult to pick. Has anyone else had similar experiences with Peerless handcuffs? And what's the secret to quickly picking this brand of handcuff? Thoughts?




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